DIY Legality

[Judith]

Someone posted the following picture on another newsgroup.

Loading Image...


(Note the white cable coming out of the LHS of the supply point above the
cooker)

Whilst it is obviously potentially unsafe and stupidity to have something like
this in a kitchen; has the person who did it broken any regulations?

I suppose if it was the owner of the property who did the wiring, then it
would be their own stupid fault if someone gets an electric shock - or would
the person who made the connection be liable in anyway?

[Andrew Gabriel]

Post by Judith
Someone posted the following picture on another newsgroup.
http://www.swldxer.co.uk/kitchen.jpg
(Note the white cable coming out of the LHS of the supply point above the
cooker)
Whilst it is obviously potentially unsafe and stupidity to have something like
this in a kitchen; has the person who did it broken any regulations?

It doesn't look very conventional which should ring alarm bells, but
without knowing a lot more details about what it's connected to, the
size of the load, cable, and circuit protection (fuses/MCB), and when
it was connected up, it's impossible to say.

A white cable running diagonally across the surface of the wall is not
by itself a contravention of anything beyond bad taste.

Post by Judith
I suppose if it was the owner of the property who did the wiring, then it
would be their own stupid fault if someone gets an electric shock - or would
the person who made the connection be liable in anyway?

Yes, if they did it incorrectly.

[Rick Hughes]

Post by Judith
Someone posted the following picture on another newsgroup.
http://www.swldxer.co.uk/kitchen.jpg
(Note the white cable coming out of the LHS of the supply point above the
cooker)
Whilst it is obviously potentially unsafe and stupidity to have something like
this in a kitchen; has the person who did it broken any regulations?
I suppose if it was the owner of the property who did the wiring, then it
would be their own stupid fault if someone gets an electric shock - or would
the person who made the connection be liable in anyway?

Then whoever has a kitchen with that amount of stuff on worktop, and a bike
in front of cooker could hardly complain about untidy wiring.

[Bill]

Post by Rick Hughes

Post by Judith
Someone posted the following picture on another newsgroup.
http://www.swldxer.co.uk/kitchen.jpg
(Note the white cable coming out of the LHS of the supply point above the
cooker)
Whilst it is obviously potentially unsafe and stupidity to have something like
this in a kitchen; has the person who did it broken any regulations?
I suppose if it was the owner of the property who did the wiring, then it
would be their own stupid fault if someone gets an electric shock - or would
the person who made the connection be liable in anyway?

Then whoever has a kitchen with that amount of stuff on worktop, and a
bike in front of cooker could hardly complain about untidy wiring.

Scares the heck out of me when people store things on top of the cooker,
if the bike slips and knocks a control knob on it could be
interesting.......
Seems to be the end of a multi block on the floor hiding behind the
fridge as well.

[g***@gmail.com]

Post by Bill
Scares the heck out of me when people store things on top of the cooker,
if the bike slips and knocks a control knob on it could be
interesting.......
Seems to be the end of a multi block on the floor hiding behind the
fridge as well.

I think what we see here is a direct result of Prat P legislation,
where folks just carry on plugging extensions in and don't bother
doing a proper job, same as ever. There's no excuse for the shoddy bit
of wire hanging out of the side of the surface box, though - that's
just gerry-built.
Difference is, now they're not allowed to do a proper job in
circumstances like this, which is why anyone with any sense and a
degree of nous ignores the foolish legislation.

[Alex Heney]

Post by Bill

Post by Rick Hughes

Post by Judith
Someone posted the following picture on another newsgroup.
http://www.swldxer.co.uk/kitchen.jpg
(Note the white cable coming out of the LHS of the supply point above the
cooker)
Whilst it is obviously potentially unsafe and stupidity to have something like
this in a kitchen; has the person who did it broken any regulations?
I suppose if it was the owner of the property who did the wiring, then it
would be their own stupid fault if someone gets an electric shock - or would
the person who made the connection be liable in anyway?

Then whoever has a kitchen with that amount of stuff on worktop, and a
bike in front of cooker could hardly complain about untidy wiring.

Scares the heck out of me when people store things on top of the cooker,
if the bike slips and knocks a control knob on it could be
interesting.......

I don't think any of that lot is stored there. It appears to have been
collected together just for the photo.

[Judith]

On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 12:37:52 -0000, "Rick Hughes"

Post by Rick Hughes

Post by Judith
Someone posted the following picture on another newsgroup.
http://www.swldxer.co.uk/kitchen.jpg
(Note the white cable coming out of the LHS of the supply point above the
cooker)
Whilst it is obviously potentially unsafe and stupidity to have something like
this in a kitchen; has the person who did it broken any regulations?
I suppose if it was the owner of the property who did the wiring, then it
would be their own stupid fault if someone gets an electric shock - or would
the person who made the connection be liable in anyway?

Then whoever has a kitchen with that amount of stuff on worktop, and a bike
in front of cooker could hardly complain about untidy wiring.

People do not seem to realise that if you have been out on a push bike - there
is more than a fair chance that there is dog shit on the wheels; not something
to bring in to the kitchen as far as I am concerned.

I know of someone who keeps his bikes in one of the bedrooms !!

[Trigger]

Post by Judith
I know of someone who keeps his bikes in one of the bedrooms !!

You need to change your social circle, Judith ;-)

[Tony Dragon]

Post by Trigger

Post by Judith
I know of someone who keeps his bikes in one of the bedrooms !!

You need to change your social circle, Judith ;-)

I am still not convinced that the bike is really in the kitchen.

[F]

Post by Tony Dragon
I am still not convinced that the bike is really in the kitchen.

I'm convinced it's not and it's been photoshopped into the picture.
There's glare from the camera flash on various areas of the bike but no
shadow behind it. The edges look 'wrong' too.

[Judith]

Post by Tony Dragon

Post by Trigger

Post by Judith
I know of someone who keeps his bikes in one of the bedrooms !!

You need to change your social circle, Judith ;-)

I am still not convinced that the bike is really in the kitchen.

Perhaps it *is* the bedroom with what is called "en-suite" in Hull.

[Andrew Mawson]

Post by Judith
Someone posted the following picture on another newsgroup.
http://www.swldxer.co.uk/kitchen.jpg
(Note the white cable coming out of the LHS of the supply point above the
cooker)
Whilst it is obviously potentially unsafe and stupidity to have something like
this in a kitchen; has the person who did it broken any regulations?
I suppose if it was the owner of the property who did the wiring, then it
would be their own stupid fault if someone gets an electric shock - or would
the person who made the connection be liable in anyway?

Looks very much like a student's digs / let house to me. In which case there
should be an inspection cert available. It's always a problem letting places
and finding that tenants have made dodgy changes as inevitably they only
come to light when they leave. One of mine 'just wired in a loft light' in
such a way that the fuse would blow whenever the stairs two way lighting
switches were in one position.

AWEM

[Mr Pounder]

Post by Judith
Someone posted the following picture on another newsgroup.
http://www.swldxer.co.uk/kitchen.jpg
(Note the white cable coming out of the LHS of the supply point above the
cooker)
Whilst it is obviously potentially unsafe and stupidity to have something like
this in a kitchen; has the person who did it broken any regulations?
I suppose if it was the owner of the property who did the wiring, then it
would be their own stupid fault if someone gets an electric shock - or would
the person who made the connection be liable in anyway?

Judith.
This is silly.
Why do you hate him so much?

Mr Pounder

[Judith]

On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 18:39:02 -0000, "Mr Pounder"
<***@RationalThought.com> wrote:

<snip>

Post by Mr Pounder
Judith.
This is silly.
Why do you hate him so much?
Mr Pounder

Bollocks - it is a sensible question to appropriate groups; as indeed the
various responses have shown.

Have you noted that I did not x-post it - and I have not referred to this
thread anywhere else?

Having seen what others have said - perhaps *you* would like to give anyone you
think would be interested in what has been said here, the heads up.

[Mr Pounder]

Post by Judith
On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 18:39:02 -0000, "Mr Pounder"
<snip>

Post by Mr Pounder
Judith.
This is silly.
Why do you hate him so much?
Mr Pounder

Bollocks - it is a sensible question to appropriate groups; as indeed the
various responses have shown.
Have you noted that I did not x-post it - and I have not referred to this
thread anywhere else?
Having seen what others have said - perhaps *you* would like to give anyone you
think would be interested in what has been said here, the heads up.

I'll ask you again.
Why do you hate him so much?

[Brian Gaff]

I don't know but there have been many accidents due to faulty wiring
installations, some fatal, and I guess it depends on whether it could be
shown to have been the fault of a particular person. You don't normally sue
yourself, and in most cases if it was a friend or relative the cost of the
action would not really bring back the person and the culprit is unlikely to
be worth enough to make it worthwhile. More likely that a criminal
prosecution might occur. I know this almost occurred in a kitchen near me
where tickles were felt on items in a cupboard, on investigation a bodged
electrical connection behind the cupboard to fit lights was not done very
well, and the metal boxes in a hole in the wall held in by one nail, had
become live and touched some conductive part of the cupboard mountings. That
was done by a company as I recall.

Brian
--
Brian Gaff - ***@blueyonder.co.uk
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!

Post by Judith
Someone posted the following picture on another newsgroup.
http://www.swldxer.co.uk/kitchen.jpg
(Note the white cable coming out of the LHS of the supply point above the
cooker)
Whilst it is obviously potentially unsafe and stupidity to have something like
this in a kitchen; has the person who did it broken any regulations?
I suppose if it was the owner of the property who did the wiring, then it
would be their own stupid fault if someone gets an electric shock - or would
the person who made the connection be liable in anyway?

[R. Mark Clayton]

Post by Judith
Someone posted the following picture on another newsgroup.
http://www.swldxer.co.uk/kitchen.jpg
(Note the white cable coming out of the LHS of the supply point above the
cooker)
Whilst it is obviously potentially unsafe and stupidity to have something like
this in a kitchen; has the person who did it broken any regulations?

Depends when it was done - the situation is more complex than it first
appears, because there is another pile of spaggetti under the worktop
including a partially visible extension block.

There is a recessed accessory box next to the cooker, but I can't see what
is in it.

The switch above the sink is probably momentary for a waste disposal unit.

The wire to the surface mount double socket could be an input or an output
(e.g. to the cooker (if gas)). It is more serious if it is an output
because it will be unfused and a short could melt the [thin] wire. It is
not clever as an input because a double socket in a kitchen can draw up to
30A (see below) and the cable would get very warm, although it would blow
the fuse in the plug if plugged in elsewhere.

I can't tell what fuel the cooker is, if electric it should have a [45A]
supply point, but I can't see one.

The radio and two other things appear plugged into the sockets, however we
have a kettle (possibly 2), toaster, micro-wave and some sort of percolator
on the top, plus a fridge down below.

Quite a lash up and potentially 6kW, so quite close to the maximum load on a
ring main.

Post by Judith
I suppose if it was the owner of the property who did the wiring, then it
would be their own stupid fault if someone gets an electric shock - or would
the person who made the connection be liable in anyway?

Since 17th Reg's only competent professionals are supposed to do wiring. It
is not as prescriptive as gas (so a good DIY'er could fit a socket or
lights, but not a consumer unit). If the tenants did this probably nothing
would happen, but if the landlord then the local council might prosecute if
there was provable overloading or similar.


PS Were they selling the bike?

[Alex Heney]

Post by Judith
Someone posted the following picture on another newsgroup.
http://www.swldxer.co.uk/kitchen.jpg
(Note the white cable coming out of the LHS of the supply point above the
cooker)
Whilst it is obviously potentially unsafe and stupidity to have something like
this in a kitchen; has the person who did it broken any regulations?
I suppose if it was the owner of the property who did the wiring, then it
would be their own stupid fault if someone gets an electric shock - or would
the person who made the connection be liable in anyway?

It depends on a few things.

If it was done recently (I can't remember for sure, but I *think* the
new rules came in in 2006), then it is automatically illegal unless
done by or inspected and certified by a qualified electrician.

DIY electrical work in kitchens and bathrooms is now illegal unless
certified (and since most certified electricians would charge as much
to certify your work as to do it themselves, there isn't much point in
DIY followed by certification).

Even if it was done longer ago, if that white cable is powering the
cooker, rather than being the input for the socket, then it would be
illegal because cookers like that *must* be powered from a proper
cooker socket with 6mm wiring, and *must* have a single switch on the
wall which can turn off the whole cooker.

[F Murtz]

Post by Judith
Someone posted the following picture on another newsgroup.
http://www.swldxer.co.uk/kitchen.jpg
(Note the white cable coming out of the LHS of the supply point above the
cooker)
Whilst it is obviously potentially unsafe and stupidity to have something like
this in a kitchen; has the person who did it broken any regulations?
I suppose if it was the owner of the property who did the wiring, then it
would be their own stupid fault if someone gets an electric shock - or would
the person who made the connection be liable in anyway?

The whole thing is a posed photo to show off the bicycle and the yuppy
upper class brands of food and chocolate.(and probably to hide the
condition of the stove.)
They would be removed after the photo

[Judith]

Post by Judith
Someone posted the following picture on another newsgroup.
http://www.swldxer.co.uk/kitchen.jpg
(Note the white cable coming out of the LHS of the supply point above the
cooker)
Whilst it is obviously potentially unsafe and stupidity to have something like
this in a kitchen; has the person who did it broken any regulations?
I suppose if it was the owner of the property who did the wiring, then it
would be their own stupid fault if someone gets an electric shock - or would
the person who made the connection be liable in anyway?

Here is the "explanation" of the person who owns the house:

=============================================================
Some bonehead wired our kitchen up wrongly when the house was built.
When we moved in 11 years ago, we had a gas cooker, so I wired up the
garage sauna to the 30 amp cooker circuit as it had a 7.5 kW heater.
When I switched it on, the entire kitchen wiring burnt out as the
cable was not 30 amp cable. This meant that we had no power in the
kitchen at all apart from one socket near the door and I was not going
to take the tiles off to put new wiring in.

I bought a socket pair and glued it to the wall to run the microwave,
tin opener, radio, kettle and coffee maker off it. I ended up wiring
the sauna directly from the fuse box after crawling under the floor
and ran a spur to power our new electric cooker.
=============================================================



But that doesn't quite hang together - does it?

The 7.5kW heater was hardwired in to the 30amp cooker circuit - and this burnt
out the "entire kitchen wiring" - most odd.

[F]

Post by Judith
=============================================================
Some bonehead wired our kitchen up wrongly when the house was built.
When we moved in 11 years ago, we had a gas cooker, so I wired up the
garage sauna to the 30 amp cooker circuit as it had a 7.5 kW heater.
When I switched it on, the entire kitchen wiring burnt out as the
cable was not 30 amp cable. This meant that we had no power in the
kitchen at all apart from one socket near the door and I was not going
to take the tiles off to put new wiring in.
I bought a socket pair and glued it to the wall to run the microwave,
tin opener, radio, kettle and coffee maker off it. I ended up wiring
the sauna directly from the fuse box after crawling under the floor
and ran a spur to power our new electric cooker.
=============================================================
But that doesn't quite hang together - does it?

What doesn't quite hang together is why you've left it until now to
provide an 'explanation' after leaving any number of us trying to puzzle
out what was what with the wiring that is visible.

You ask a question and withhold relevant information.

[Judith]

Post by F

Post by Judith
=============================================================
Some bonehead wired our kitchen up wrongly when the house was built.
When we moved in 11 years ago, we had a gas cooker, so I wired up the
garage sauna to the 30 amp cooker circuit as it had a 7.5 kW heater.
When I switched it on, the entire kitchen wiring burnt out as the
cable was not 30 amp cable. This meant that we had no power in the
kitchen at all apart from one socket near the door and I was not going
to take the tiles off to put new wiring in.
I bought a socket pair and glued it to the wall to run the microwave,
tin opener, radio, kettle and coffee maker off it. I ended up wiring
the sauna directly from the fuse box after crawling under the floor
and ran a spur to power our new electric cooker.
=============================================================
But that doesn't quite hang together - does it?

What doesn't quite hang together is why you've left it until now to
provide an 'explanation' after leaving any number of us trying to puzzle
out what was what with the wiring that is visible.
You ask a question and withhold relevant information.

ffs - it is not my house.

The clue was in the first line of the original post :

"Someone posted the following picture on another newsgroup."

The explanation of the person who owns the house has just been posted in light
of the discussion.

[F]

Post by Judith

Post by F

Post by Judith
=============================================================
Some bonehead wired our kitchen up wrongly when the house was built.
When we moved in 11 years ago, we had a gas cooker, so I wired up the
garage sauna to the 30 amp cooker circuit as it had a 7.5 kW heater.
When I switched it on, the entire kitchen wiring burnt out as the
cable was not 30 amp cable. This meant that we had no power in the
kitchen at all apart from one socket near the door and I was not going
to take the tiles off to put new wiring in.
I bought a socket pair and glued it to the wall to run the microwave,
tin opener, radio, kettle and coffee maker off it. I ended up wiring
the sauna directly from the fuse box after crawling under the floor
and ran a spur to power our new electric cooker.
=============================================================
But that doesn't quite hang together - does it?

What doesn't quite hang together is why you've left it until now to
provide an 'explanation' after leaving any number of us trying to puzzle
out what was what with the wiring that is visible.
You ask a question and withhold relevant information.

ffs - it is not my house.
"Someone posted the following picture on another newsgroup."
The explanation of the person who owns the house has just been posted in light
of the discussion.

And then you went on to ask questions but didn't/haven't bother(ed) to
offer up extra information that you had/have which would have helped
with the answers you were asking for.

[Judith]

On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 15:28:09 +0000, F <***@nowhere> wrote:

<snip>

Post by F
And then you went on to ask questions but didn't/haven't bother(ed) to
offer up extra information that you had/have which would have helped
with the answers you were asking for.

Which particular information are you guessing I was aware of?

Are you perhaps clairvoyant?

[Frank Erskine]

On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 20:36:27 -0000, "David Kemper"

Cycling group added as the owner of this kitchen frequents that group

Is the bicycle relevant?